When humanity comes to a new place, it's generally not very nice.
Today, mammoth kills caveman in self-defence. Tomorrow, human comes back with flint weapon and kills mammoth. Next day, human comes back with cannon and kills mammoth's family. Soon enough, the human comes by, enslaves the mammoth populations and places them in the animal equivalent of a labour camp. Now, the mammoth's only job is to serve humanity until death, whereupon it is eaten. Notably, by humanity.
That's what science has done.
If we didn't have the technology to kill the mammoth, we couldn't eat it. If we didn't have the technology to capture the mammoth, we couldn't enslave it. If we didn't have the technology to obtain milk from the mammoth, we couldn't use it. We are one of the few animals in nature that develops technology not only at a prodigious rate but also almost exclusively for the purpose of personal gain at all costs. Honestly, everything we do is out of greed- such as building mammoth farms. Farms make food. Food can be used to sell. Money can be used for one's own enjoyment. Food can also be used to eat for one's own survival. And you may claim that food can also be used to give to others- but why do humans give things to others? Only because the human brain is wired to enjoy charity. Giving to others makes you happy. Seeing other people happy makes you happy. Giving to others is exclusively for your own enjoyment. Think about that next time you sign up for volunteer work, you selfish human.
And therefore, all the new technology we develop- computers, cars, even Hadron colliders, they're all for personal happiness. And technology develops quickly- a half year old phone is already considered outdated. So, progress! But in reality, nothing we do is considered "noble" or "good". It's all greed. We have progress, but is the world better? Ask the mammoth. If his opinion isn't censored by humanity, he'll tell you no. No conquered man, no enslaved population will ever tell you life is good. But if you ask the conquerors...
Life's good for humanity. As opposed to, say, the rest of the world. And as soon as we get done with figuring out space travel, the rest of the universe. Look out, here we come!
Lukas,
ReplyDeleteWhile you had some creative and interesting points here, I completely, utterly, 100% disagree. You used the metaphor of a mammoth to describe humanity in general. To describe how humans "take advantage" of resources and just throw them away when they're done, well duh. If you think that just because we use resources that we have, we are bad people, you are being ridiculous. Take cows for example. You think that just because cows work for humans, we take their milk and then kill them, we are bad people. However take a look at it from another angle. How are we supposed to survive and get proper nutrition without taking these resources. And sure, call it slavery, but what are we supposed to do? Give the cows a paycheque at the end of the week so they can go to the store and pay for dinner? So they can pay rent? Taxes maybe? Or maybe we should ask them if it's okay to kill them or take their milk. Well if you do think that you are being ridiculous. Its just not logical. You might say "Oh, so you think its okay just because cows are stupider?", and sure, if you put it that way, it sounds bad. But how else are we going to live or get are nutrients? Let me ask you Lukas, are you a vegetarian? Do you truly believe that this is cruelty and we should pay cows or ask for permission to milk or kill them? Did you write this and then turn around a few minutes later and ate a burger, milk or a stake? Its the way we live! And I'm sorry, but I don't think this will change any time soon.
Shall we play a game?
DeleteHumanity begins as hunter-gatherers. Technically, humans are omnivores, and we are perfectly capable of maintaining a much more healthy life with meat, milk, or eggs. The human digestive system isn't evolved to process meat. But let's say that ook the caveman wants mammoth for dinner. So he goes off, kills a mammoth and takes it to his family, and they eat it. This is survival. Good job, Ook, you're not threatening the ecosystem. Now let's look at a modern day human- we have here, Dave, who runs a ranch/ labour camp. He wants meat. In fact, he wants it almost every day as opposed to Ook, for which meat is a rarity. For Dave, getting meat isn't nearly as difficult- because he has a RUDDY ARMY OF DELICIOUS SLAVES. What do these slaves do? Walk around in an allotment. Be given minimum ration. Be injected with hormones and chemicals to speed up their milk and fat production. Provide milk, and thereby money, for their masters. And when Dave comes by wanting meat, die. Be killed unwillingly. In other words, be murdered, executed, euthanasia, etc, etc, etc. And why? So Dave can have his favorite food for a night. Yum.
Ooh, that reminds me of something. Concentration camps during World War Two. Sentient, intelligent beings. Forced to work for those with more weapons than them. No paycheck, no reward, no nothing. And when you're done working, do you at least go free? Nope, off to the gas chambers.
That's what cows get.
Is that survival?
I think not.
While I understand where you're coming from with the 'Jews in WWII' aspect, that was in the past. I believe the prompt was 'Has Humanity evolved for the Better or Worse?'. It has been 70 years since WWII. Humanity has obviously evolved since then.
DeleteSo now we have Dave. While you make him out to a ruthless monster, all he is doing is making a life for himself. Dave runs a farm, a business, raising cows so that people world wide (not just himself) can get meat and milk. Say Dave didn't have this job? He wouldn't have money to support him family, and not only that but you wouldn't get you're burger/steak/pasta with meat sauce/milk/yogurt/ice cream/cheese... Should I go on? Cows give us resources that help us survive, and personally i can't apologise for using them. I'm sorry if you feel differently, however you might consider thinking about this next time you have meat/any dairy product.
The problem here is that Dave isn't helping us survive. Ook is.
DeleteFirstly, humanity doesn't need burger/steak/pasta with meat sauce/milk/yogurt/ice cream/cheese. But that's beside the point.
See, when Ook needs meat, he goes off and kills ONE cow. Just one- enough for his family to enjoy for about a couple of weeks (there's quite a lot of meat on a cow, you know). If he wants milk, he maintains a small herd- maybe 3 or so. And they provide him and his family, if not his village with food.
Now dave here, he "maintains" a herd of about fifty. Fifty intelligent living beings crammed into a tiny, dark room with nothing to eat but re-processed food. Fifty intelligent living beings over-worked to the point of death from exhaustion. And to prevent them from dying from exhaustion, they are literally experimented on. The entire process is so incredibly disgusting that most large food companies have tried to outlaw any photography of their "farms" because they know if anyone finds out what they're doing, they'll never buy from them again. It's no longer survival, it's industry. And industry isn't for survival, it's for $PROFIT$. Dave doesn't kill for food, or for survival, but for MONIES. MANY MONIES. And Dave couldn't do what he does if it wasn't for the technology that Humanity developed and gave to him. Electronic fences. Steel construction. Automated milkers. Genetic Manipulation. That's what Humanity has "Progressed" with. In some ways, it's pretty impressive. In some ways, it's just bloody evil.
And you may call me a hypocrite, but that's just how I am. I know humanity is evil. I know I'm evil. I want to make the world know it's evil. But do I want it to do anything about it? I gave up that hope long ago. There are good people in this world, people who try to show everyone what Dave is really doing, but there are just too many evil people out there. Lawyers who will sue the good people for "industrial espionage" if they get paid enough. There's just too many. You can't fight them. Just know that they're out there. And that they- not me, or you- are the ones who have conquered the planet.
Okay, fair enough, maybe its not fantastic the way many people in the food industry treat cows in in the 'crammed dark room' way; however you were going out for Dave because he was making money off the meat he sells, and i don't think that's fair. Dave is a working man, much like a banker, a super market clerk, a hotel manager... etc. He needs to support his family, just like Ook does, and if you are saying that there shouldn't be cow farms and everyone should go out and kill their own cows every time they want a steak, you are wrong. When you walk in to a supermarket, you can see shelves and shelves of meat of all kinds, what if all of that just disappeared? What if someone came to the farm one day and told Dave and hundreds of others that they were now out of a job. Hundreds of kids would be pulled from school because they're parents can't pay for it anymore. Then who is the future? All those kids, now without an education, wont be able to go to college, get a job, raise their families... etc. A HUGE downward spiral, not to mention the economy tanking because a huge amount of what every supermarket sells, is now gone. So now since supermarkets don't sell meat, everyone has to be like Ook and catch and kill their own meat. Not everyone lives in an area that has cows roaming the streets. People live in cities. Not only that but do all people really have as much time as Ook to go out and kill cows, sort the different meats, store it properly, dispose of it properly? It's not as simple as 'kill cow eat meat'. While i see where you might be coming from, i still strongly disagree.
ReplyDeleteYou do have a point. It would be a huge blow to many people around the world if the food industry was smashed, but the entire industry is a bit like drugs. We rely on it. Thousands of people die from heart disease and heart attacks every day because of it. It costs us billions in health care. And yet, we can't get rid of it. It just doesn't work that way. The world will suffer from withdrawal. Meat will be driven into the black market. Gangs with the money to provide meat will take over cities. It's happened before.
DeleteBut let's not look at humans for a moment. Let's focus on the rest of the world. The cows. Why does it matter that one human slips into poverty, when fifty cows will be saved from a life of pain, misery, experimentation, and ultimatety, death. The removal of half the world's population would ease the planet's suffering halfway as well. But what is worth more- three billion humans, or the planet's ultimate demise? We are hurtling toward disaster. The world will eventually be a desolate wasteland, and you care about Dave's family?
You claim that Dave is a good working man. And he is. You know why? Because human's decided it. Who gives two hoots what nature says. But let's just listen to what the cows think of Dave: "!@#$%^!%!#^%".
Hm.
I guess they don't hold him in very high regard.
I understand you are passionate about letting cows have a voice, like the Lorax saying "I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongue", and I am sure you are not alone in that. I am not going to disagree with you saying that we shouldn't treat cows cruelly, because cows deserve respect too. The question is, how far are we going to go with that statement? I think most people would say that we should treat them with respect, but when it comes down to letting the economy crash, letting thousands lose their jobs, people starving... etc. vs. killing some cows and selling the meat, I think most people would pick killing the cows. And maybe you wouldn't and you disagree, if you i have a challenge for you. I challenge you to not eat meat or dairy of any kind for a year, unless you get it like Ook, by catching the cow, milking it, killing it, cleaning it... and all those things yourself. I am honestly interested to see if you could last. Say you couldn't, say you gave in and ate a burger or has some ice cream. Now think, what if you couldn't. What if you couldn't give in and have that burger or that ice cream, because it wasn't available because super markets didn't sell it. Now imagine that, not only for a year, but for your whole life. Would you honestly be able to do it?
ReplyDeleteAll right, cool. Maybe it would be sad that we couldn't eat burgers, or ice cream. I mean, we are pretty attached to our drug-like foodstuffs. But would the economy really crash? Let's play out an alternate future where the enslavement of intelligent lifeforms isn't legal (Gasp! What a radical notion!), and see what happens to each of your claims.
Delete1. "letting the economy crash"
An economical crash occurs when people stop buying, and as a result, shops stop selling, and since shops stop selling, buyers stop buying and everything spirals out of. So Jack, the completely, utterly, almost abnormally average American, goes into a supermarket, and notices that the meat and dairy section have mysteriously disappeared. So does he either panic, stop buying food, organize mass protests against the outlawal of slavery, and eventually starve, or does he just look for an alternate processed food source? Somehow, option two is more likely. And there will be people who choose option one. But then again, when slavery was outlawed after the Civil War, we had the same situation. Nowadays, anyone who promotes slavery is a horrible, horrible person.
2. "letting thousands lose their jobs"
Honestly, how many people are involved in the food industry? Let's just say there are in fact, "thousands". Interestingly enough, there were "thousands" of people involved in the cotton industry after the Civil War. Did we recover? Yes we did. Not only did we recover, began to shun slavery, as something only monsters would do. Maybe, one day, murdering a poor innocent sheep and then burning and eating its corpse might be seen as something only monsters would do. Or is that impossible?
3. “people starving”
They would hardly starve. The human body is designed to eat plants. We evolved from herbivores. Those herbivores evolve from herbivores. And those herbivores evolved from tiny marine creatures that ate phytoplankton, which happens to be tiny plants. But for some reason we just happened to gain the ability to digest- although highly inefficiently- meat and dairy products. And we’re not even supposed to! Meat and dairy is much, much less healthy than most plant life, and since meat and dairy is some of the most processed food on the planet. We’re digging our own grave- so why not take away the shovel?
And now the question we’ve all been waiting for- Could I handle a lifetime without meat or dairy?
Well, I’d sort of have to. It’s not really a choice I have to make.
Have you ever heard of vegans? They don’t eat meat or animal products.
EVER.
So yes, I could probably do it.
Fun fact: Hunger is, technically speaking, a withdrawal symptom.
While you make strong points, do you have evidence to support it? I found a link about the meat industry in the United States alone-
ReplyDeletehttps://www.meatinstitute.org/ht/display/ShowPage/id/47465/pid/47465
"The 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, recommend eating 5.7 ounces of meat per day as part of a healthy, balanced diet."
"These proteins contain all 9 essential amino acids needed for growth and good overall health, making meat a "complete" protein."
"Meat is also a great source for iron, magnesium, zinc, niacin, selenium, riboflavin and B-vitamins that help your body turn food into energy."
"In 2010, more than 487,600 workers were employed in the meat and poultry packing and processing industries."
"the meat and poultry industry impacts firms in all 509 sectors of the U.S. economy, in every state and every congressional district in the country."
" companies involved in meat production, along with their suppliers, distributors, retailers and ancillary industries employ 6.2 million people in the U.S. with jobs"
"The meat and poultry industry's economic ripple effect generates $864.2 billion annually to the U.S. economy, or roughly 6% of the entire GDP."
Again, economy crashes, job losses, nutrient lacking, and thats not even addressing dairy and other animal products. Sometimes its not as simple as calling it 'slavery' and outlawing it.